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Post by rowenafair on Nov 21, 2009 15:21:42 GMT -5
eric, that post appeared to combine several different topics into one, and all mixed up like salad. maybe it is my brain but ... ? forgive me for missing the first days of the board, but it seems maybe you are referring to things already said before i got here, and compacting some facts with others that may or not be related...i am confused!!  i never saw the randy holden era BC. i can see how leigh might have been too unpredictable to work with but he has said (in print somewher) that it was the other way around, the others couldn't keep up with themselves - never mind keeping in step with him - because of too many substances. i can understand holden being pissed off at being passed off as leigh or even worse as the "generic" bc guitarist. i can't understand why he would hold a grudge to this day. better to have put his version out there where someone could see it instead of retreating into himself. but he is certainly not alone in being put in that position. its rampant in the business, as well as in tv (i'm reminded of how roseanne spoofed the whole scenario where players are replaced and even return in the same character with no explanation in series...) i've always liked keith richards' attitude to the injustices of the biz "that is the price of your higher education!" |
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Post by barbaricus on Nov 21, 2009 16:08:52 GMT -5
Mentions of March 1969 Blue Cheer shows with Randy Holden in the lineup inspire me to ask if anyone remembers exactly when "New! Improved! Blue Cheer" was released, and if anyone knows exactly when Randy left the band. The popularly stated release date for NIBC is March 1969, but I seem to remember first seeing that album in late spring or early summer of 1969. If the album was in fact released while Randy was still performing with BC, then that would indicate that Side 1, with Bruce Stephens and Ralph Burns Kellogg, was recorded while Randy was still a BC member. Either that or the album was released several months later, after Randy left and Bruce and Ralph joined. NIBC's back cover has no pictures of Randy, leading me to believe that he was out of the band by the time it was released. Details anyone?
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Post by gypsyball on Nov 21, 2009 16:46:40 GMT -5
Mentions of March 1969 Blue Cheer shows with Randy Holden in the lineup inspire me to ask if anyone remembers exactly when "New! Improved! Blue Cheer" was released, and if anyone knows exactly when Randy left the band. The popularly stated release date for NIBC is March 1969, but I seem to remember first seeing that album in late spring or early summer of 1969. If the album was in fact released while Randy was still performing with BC, then that would indicate that Side 1, with Bruce Stephens and Ralph Burns Kellogg, was recorded while Randy was still a BC member. Either that or the album was released several months later, after Randy left and Bruce and Ralph joined. NIBC's back cover has no pictures of Randy, leading me to believe that he was out of the band by the time it was released. Details anyone? I have this book from 1969 with info of the bands through that time. It also listed the members of the bands as well. In the Blue Cheer bio it never listed Bruce or Ralph being in the band, so I thought Holden was on the whole New Improved album, not Holden only being on side 2 and Bruce and Ralph being on side 1. Its also funny to see in that book that Blue Cheer had a longer bio of then than Led Zeppelin did |
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Post by gypsyball on Nov 21, 2009 17:57:54 GMT -5
I bought the LP late March or early April, just shortly, a week or so after the show. I still remember it as if yesterday. I couldn't figure out what was going on with all the new names and really couldn't recognize anyone on the back. So Holden was still with them when New Improved came out?  |
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Post by featheredfish on Nov 21, 2009 19:20:27 GMT -5
The songs featuring Randy were recorded before they went on that European Tour. The band then split up after that tour, or thereabouts. The songs on Side One were recorded after the band reformed with yet another new line-up. The Record Company then used both sets of recordings to create New Improved. They played Randy`s songs when they went on tour with Randy on vocals. Randy once told me they also played much of the first side of Outsideinside as well. He distinctly remembers that they played `Gypsy Ball` and `Sun Cycle`.
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Post by riffraff on Nov 22, 2009 17:46:48 GMT -5
I think that was quite an insult, not having any picture of Randy on the back of NIBC. Was that the "genius", Jerry Russell's doing?
Feathered...are you sure they recorded Side 2 of NIBC before the European tour? Because, I thought it was in Randy's contract to record at least one side of an album. And this was after the tour. After the successful European tour, the band's mangement offered Randy $500 for his efforts (9 months or so of being on tour). He was so upset, he said he quit. But the band's management said not so fast, you still owe us a recording of one side of an album. So Randy held up his end of the contract by recording the stunning side 2 of NIBC. The recording sounds well rehearsed (most probably due to the tour) , fluid and the tension caused the anger of the players give it an edge.....unlike Side 1, which by the way I still liked but is more laid back. I also think that Dickie and Paul played extremely well , knowing full well that this would be the first and last recording they would ever do with Randy. The album came out at the same time as Happy Trails by Quicksilver Messenger Service. I remember that. My brother bought Happy Trails and I bought NIBC. Spring sounds right.....the Christmas before, Electric Ladyland by Jimi Hendrix was released.
Those were heady days back then, my friends.....
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Post by featheredfish on Nov 22, 2009 19:09:37 GMT -5
Riff Raff I wouldn`t argue with you on that one, but one problem Randy had with the band on that tour was getting them to rehearse. That caused a lot of friction between Dickie and him. If they wouldn`t rehearse, then I say that those tracks were recorded prior to going on tour. When the tour finished, and it just wasn`t the European leg, Randy said that he demanded to be paid and the management said there was no money to pay him with and he said he quit. That doesn`t sound like they took time off to go into a studio and record some Randy Holden songs.
I bought `Happy Trails` when it came out over here. I have the original mono version. It has probably been played as many times as the first two Cheer albums. Back then, they didn`t release any of the West Coast albums in Britain until they had been out in the States for about six months. The original US albums had thick cardboard covers whereas the British versions had pretty much what you get nowadays. I used to go to a record importer in London, England, and I got certain albums sent to me direct from the States on day of issue.
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Post by FeedbackLourde on Nov 22, 2009 23:23:54 GMT -5
To make this mystery even more mysterious, I found a tour iternirary Randy sent years back that he tried to reconstruct by memory and has admitted was loosely put together. However, this thing has him playing with BC up until July/Aug 1969 where he claims they were recording in Hollywood. So, if this itinerary has any degree of accurarcy which I'm sure it does, I am leaning towards saying that they did not start recording until after their big tour (which included a lot of dates in the USA right after the European tour). Though BC3 is listed everywhere as being released in March 1969, that may be wrong.
Also, lending support to this is a story I heard Bruce Stephens tell about the how he & Ralph Kellogg joined BC. According to him, Dickie & Paul had asked them to join the band as things weren't working out with Randy and intended all along to have 2 different bands on each side of the album. BUT...they didn't tell Randy that. After 2 weeks of them hanging around Holden asked them when they planned on leaving and Bruce replied, "Oh, I think we'll be around for quite sometime." At that point, Holden put 2 & 2 together and alledgedly quit the band the very next day. I take this with a grain of salt as I have never heard this story repeated anywhere else but it does make sense with what I described above. It sure is fun getting this band's history straight!
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Post by rrrelik on Nov 23, 2009 7:08:24 GMT -5
Dickie and I had plans to move to London in early 69. He was to record New Improved in LA, and then go on to London before me. He phoned during the first week of March, to say the Band had broken up, this was Dickie, Paul and Randy.He would not be joining me, but, had to finish the album.He gave me info to find Leigh in London, Jerry Russel was there as well. I special ordered my copy of NIBC, from an Importer, in the Summer of 69.I know I flew to London on March 10th, it was my first trip abroad, a memorable adventure.
On another post, someone asked about Paul's wives. He has been married twice, his first wife was Kathy G. and they were married in LA, at around this time.
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Post by mikethedrummer on Nov 23, 2009 8:09:46 GMT -5
"New! Improved" entered the Billboard Top 200 Albums chart on 5/3/69 at position 138.
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Post by terencebelcher on Nov 23, 2009 14:30:54 GMT -5
I think that was quite an insult, not having any picture of Randy on the back of NIBC. Was that the "genius", Jerry Russell's doing? Oh, and it's NOT insulting that Randy never put a special thanks to Blue Cheer and Jerry Russell on the backs of his solo albums? If it weren't for them, he'd have NEVER become the idol of hundreds that he is now! |
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Post by terencebelcher on Nov 23, 2009 19:27:48 GMT -5
In all actuality Side 1 NIBC , BC4,Human Being and Oh Pleasant Hope were Dickie Peterson solo albums they were just being called BC because of contractual obligations nevertheless they were very good records and very creative,……it’s too band circumstances led to Randy’s departure ‘cause Pop 2 could have been the third BC album,…it would have been interesting to hear what Paul and Dickie would have done on those songs (on Pop 2) being the rhythm section ,……BTW how many dates did Randy do for Pop 2 as a two piece? Someone I had spoken to a while back said that he saw BC play in Hawaii at that time but I distinctly remember him saying that they were only two pieces when he saw them – now that I found out it was Randy Holden who performed that gig with just drums and no bass in Hawaii - so that must mean he probably booked the gig as former BC guitarist or maybe even BC just to get the people interested in seeing the show,….yes, BC made him the guitar god that he is today so he’s got to show the respect  |
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Post by featheredfish on Nov 23, 2009 19:41:16 GMT -5
It would also be interesting to speculate that if Leigh hadn`t left the band, that `Red Weather` might also be considered to be a candidate for the third Blue Cheer album. I would have loved to hear the Original Power Trio doing `I Grow Higher`.
`Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! I go high......I go HIGHER!`
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Post by mikethedrummer on Nov 23, 2009 22:57:33 GMT -5
Have to disagree about the later albums being essentially Dickie solo albums. Half of the fourth album was Bruce's, and the last two were more a platform for Gary Yoder's songwriting than anything else. Dickie's involvement seemed to dwindle with each album.
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Post by barbaricus on Nov 24, 2009 0:31:28 GMT -5
Terence, I also wanted to chime in about the last three of the original six BC albums. While Dickie owned the contract, I would not say that these albums were his solo albums. (I do agree with you that they are very good, creative records, whatever the group name.) The fourth album was a true group effort by a band that had nothing to do with Blue Cheer, save for the fact that BC's bass player was on board. The fifth and sixth albums are collections of a wide variety of music by a loose conglomeration of Davis and San Francisco musicians. This especially applies to the sixth album, which has no group identity at all. Dickie is barely there; three, count 'em, three other bass players are credited. He put in his contractually required appearance, had his famous carrot juice scuffle with Norman, and split.
Calling Uncle Eric! Please tell us all you can about the sessions for "The Original Human Being" and "Oh! Pleasant Hope." As co-producer, you must have plenty of inside stories. You've told us a little previously, but I'm sure more tales would be welcomed by all. Thanks!
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